How a podcast became a $200M business in 18 months, and why most networks are still pricing their inventory on monthly downloads.

Jake Hurwitz and Jonathan Baer sit down with Casey Adams, founder of Listener, to break down what actually changed in the business of podcasting.

The Formula One sponsorship model that TBPN used to sell category-exclusive year-long deals before the OpenAI acquisition. The metrics that replaced the download. The case for treating Instagram as a giant LLM you train with clip volume. The specific reason the standard ad-sales pitch is now talking to the wrong department.

A conversation between three people building different parts of the same shift. Casey runs Listener, the analytics layer for modern podcast publishers. Jonathan runs Overlap, the AI clip distribution tool used by iHeart, Yahoo, and most of the top networks. Jake runs Thursday Labs, a network of 70+ shows for the tech and venture ecosystem.

Episode 02 of The Podcast Podcast. A limited series from Thursday Labs and Overlap.